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	<title>Comments on: Define your target audience</title>
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	<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2008/05/define-your-target-audience/</link>
	<description>MMO game development</description>
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		<title>By: Nollind Whachell</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2008/05/define-your-target-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-4964</link>
		<dc:creator>Nollind Whachell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=101#comment-4964</guid>
		<description>Interesting viewpoint Teresa. I personally define a casual gamer as someone who plays games infrequently, say three to five hours a week when they have the time versus more avid or hardcore gamers who will often put in ten to twenty scheduled hours a week (or even more). So if you were playing three to five nights a week, for three hours each night (i.e. raiding), then I&#039;d hardly call you a &quot;casual gamer&quot;.

To me it has nothing to do with how good you are at the game and what your real life involves, it&#039;s more to do with how much of a priority you&#039;ve given gaming within your life. For some people, they only play when they have the time (so possibly even once every other week). For others, they are more passionate about it, especially if they have a social network of friends within it, and they&#039;ll play a lot more, every week or even every day if they get the chance.

BTW even though I&#039;ve in a sense defined what I think a casual gamer is, I still agree with Eric that you can&#039;t define a casual gamer as a target audience. It would be the equivalent of saying &quot;We are targeting all people who drive blue vehicles.&quot; It just doesn&#039;t make sense because it doesn&#039;t really narrow down your audience, thus you&#039;re not really defining a target audience at all (which is what Eric was getting at).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting viewpoint Teresa. I personally define a casual gamer as someone who plays games infrequently, say three to five hours a week when they have the time versus more avid or hardcore gamers who will often put in ten to twenty scheduled hours a week (or even more). So if you were playing three to five nights a week, for three hours each night (i.e. raiding), then I&#8217;d hardly call you a &#8220;casual gamer&#8221;.</p>
<p>To me it has nothing to do with how good you are at the game and what your real life involves, it&#8217;s more to do with how much of a priority you&#8217;ve given gaming within your life. For some people, they only play when they have the time (so possibly even once every other week). For others, they are more passionate about it, especially if they have a social network of friends within it, and they&#8217;ll play a lot more, every week or even every day if they get the chance.</p>
<p>BTW even though I&#8217;ve in a sense defined what I think a casual gamer is, I still agree with Eric that you can&#8217;t define a casual gamer as a target audience. It would be the equivalent of saying &#8220;We are targeting all people who drive blue vehicles.&#8221; It just doesn&#8217;t make sense because it doesn&#8217;t really narrow down your audience, thus you&#8217;re not really defining a target audience at all (which is what Eric was getting at).</p>
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		<title>By: Teresa</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2008/05/define-your-target-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-4913</link>
		<dc:creator>Teresa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=101#comment-4913</guid>
		<description>Okay, if the way you define casual gamer is the way most developers define it, then I understand the problem.

Let me introduce myself.

I&#039;m female.  I&#039;m a casual gamer. I&#039;m over 20...way, way over 20.

I&#039;m not a soccer mom.  I&#039;m someone who works for a living at a demanding job.  I love MMOs.  I really, really love MMOs.  I&#039;m actually fairly good at the ones I&#039;ve played.  I understand game mechanics and min/maxing.  I&#039;ve raided with top raiding guilds in the various games I&#039;ve played in.  I&#039;ve even been part of the server or game &#039;firsts&#039; with whatever guild I belonged to at the time.

But someone has to pay the bills, so I work and if I want to stay in a relationship (even if it&#039;s with another gamer) some time has to be devoted to it.  Oh, and I have friends too.  Seriously...if you all think that what makes a person a casual gamer is a lackluster approach to a game or the fact that they aren&#039;t very good at it.  You are wrong.  And if this is where most designers feel the divide exists it&#039;s no wonder they totally miss the mark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, if the way you define casual gamer is the way most developers define it, then I understand the problem.</p>
<p>Let me introduce myself.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m female.  I&#8217;m a casual gamer. I&#8217;m over 20&#8230;way, way over 20.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not a soccer mom.  I&#8217;m someone who works for a living at a demanding job.  I love MMOs.  I really, really love MMOs.  I&#8217;m actually fairly good at the ones I&#8217;ve played.  I understand game mechanics and min/maxing.  I&#8217;ve raided with top raiding guilds in the various games I&#8217;ve played in.  I&#8217;ve even been part of the server or game &#8216;firsts&#8217; with whatever guild I belonged to at the time.</p>
<p>But someone has to pay the bills, so I work and if I want to stay in a relationship (even if it&#8217;s with another gamer) some time has to be devoted to it.  Oh, and I have friends too.  Seriously&#8230;if you all think that what makes a person a casual gamer is a lackluster approach to a game or the fact that they aren&#8217;t very good at it.  You are wrong.  And if this is where most designers feel the divide exists it&#8217;s no wonder they totally miss the mark.</p>
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		<title>By: Nollind Whachell</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2008/05/define-your-target-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-3880</link>
		<dc:creator>Nollind Whachell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 03:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=101#comment-3880</guid>
		<description>Hey Eric, with regards to this topic of determining a &quot;target audience&quot;, what&#039;s your viewpoint of games that combines multiple perspectives of gameplay? For example, games like BattleZone (1998) and Microsoft Allegiance incorporated two styles of play, FPS and RTS.

Well what if an MMO game design combined multiple perspectives purposely to take advantage of the diversity of play styles, audiences, and even platforms. For example, FPS games usually require a 3D graphic intensive environment, yet RTS games can suffice quite well with lower requirements in a 2D format. Even more so, certain strategy simulation games, say something like the old Hamurabi game have even lower minimal requirements. Here&#039;s some examples of what I mean.

Say I&#039;m an individual who&#039;s not really into adventuring, roleplaying, or raiding but loves RVR battles and I&#039;m an exceptional leader when it comes to 2D RTS interfaces. Well what if the MMO I played was designed in such a way that I could pop online and interact with my guild as a battle commander. I mean think of how WoW works. You come online, your buddies invite you to the group, and you&#039;re transported to the battlefield. Imagine the same thing but from a 2D Flash-based web browser interface where I log into the game, get invited and transported to the battle, and can now lead it in a 2D RTS format. When I&#039;m done, it transports me back to a set location in my home city and I close my web browser.

Or let&#039;s say I really don&#039;t have that much time at all but I love working the markets within MMOs, buying and selling goods for a profit, and seem to be exceptional at it (spending maybe only 30 to 60 minutes at day at it at most). Again imagine an interface where I could log into the game via a simple mobile PC text interface to buy and sell goods for maybe 15 minutes at a time, about three or four times a day (basically when I have the time in between things). Again if I&#039;m part of a guild or let&#039;s say a corporation within Eve Online, I could be an integral and valuable member of my corporation (community), even though I&#039;m playing just minutes each day.

All said and done though, I think you&#039;re still right. The game still has to be designed from the outset for these varying types of specific target audiences. Yet I&#039;m still interested if you think this is a good approach or potentially bad one, in mixing different target audiences within one game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Eric, with regards to this topic of determining a &#8220;target audience&#8221;, what&#8217;s your viewpoint of games that combines multiple perspectives of gameplay? For example, games like BattleZone (1998) and Microsoft Allegiance incorporated two styles of play, FPS and RTS.</p>
<p>Well what if an MMO game design combined multiple perspectives purposely to take advantage of the diversity of play styles, audiences, and even platforms. For example, FPS games usually require a 3D graphic intensive environment, yet RTS games can suffice quite well with lower requirements in a 2D format. Even more so, certain strategy simulation games, say something like the old Hamurabi game have even lower minimal requirements. Here&#8217;s some examples of what I mean.</p>
<p>Say I&#8217;m an individual who&#8217;s not really into adventuring, roleplaying, or raiding but loves RVR battles and I&#8217;m an exceptional leader when it comes to 2D RTS interfaces. Well what if the MMO I played was designed in such a way that I could pop online and interact with my guild as a battle commander. I mean think of how WoW works. You come online, your buddies invite you to the group, and you&#8217;re transported to the battlefield. Imagine the same thing but from a 2D Flash-based web browser interface where I log into the game, get invited and transported to the battle, and can now lead it in a 2D RTS format. When I&#8217;m done, it transports me back to a set location in my home city and I close my web browser.</p>
<p>Or let&#8217;s say I really don&#8217;t have that much time at all but I love working the markets within MMOs, buying and selling goods for a profit, and seem to be exceptional at it (spending maybe only 30 to 60 minutes at day at it at most). Again imagine an interface where I could log into the game via a simple mobile PC text interface to buy and sell goods for maybe 15 minutes at a time, about three or four times a day (basically when I have the time in between things). Again if I&#8217;m part of a guild or let&#8217;s say a corporation within Eve Online, I could be an integral and valuable member of my corporation (community), even though I&#8217;m playing just minutes each day.</p>
<p>All said and done though, I think you&#8217;re still right. The game still has to be designed from the outset for these varying types of specific target audiences. Yet I&#8217;m still interested if you think this is a good approach or potentially bad one, in mixing different target audiences within one game.</p>
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		<title>By: Dwayne Rudy</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2008/05/define-your-target-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-3470</link>
		<dc:creator>Dwayne Rudy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 14:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=101#comment-3470</guid>
		<description>Eric,

I&#039;m curious what you think the console audience list would look like? A lot of what I see suggests they would fit pretty closely into the &quot;Traditional Gamers&quot; category you identified.

Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m curious what you think the console audience list would look like? A lot of what I see suggests they would fit pretty closely into the &#8220;Traditional Gamers&#8221; category you identified.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Sandra</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2008/05/define-your-target-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-3388</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 16:54:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=101#comment-3388</guid>
		<description>I believe they are usually called &#039;personas&#039; ... not &quot;pretend people&quot;. *grin*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe they are usually called &#8216;personas&#8217; &#8230; not &#8220;pretend people&#8221;. *grin*</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2008/05/define-your-target-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-3355</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 06:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=101#comment-3355</guid>
		<description>Nikos - creating &quot;pretend people&quot; is apparently something they do in the advertising world, too, to help them visualize how each element will appeal to their audience. It sounds like a pretty good idea... one that we never see in the MMO development world for some reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nikos &#8211; creating &#8220;pretend people&#8221; is apparently something they do in the advertising world, too, to help them visualize how each element will appeal to their audience. It sounds like a pretty good idea&#8230; one that we never see in the MMO development world for some reason.</p>
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		<title>By: Grimwell</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2008/05/define-your-target-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-3351</link>
		<dc:creator>Grimwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 04:29:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=101#comment-3351</guid>
		<description>What a wonderful post to come off of vacation and read! ;) Glad to see the update.

I really agree. It&#039;s far too easy to assume a lot of audience on simple terms, but if you actually want to profit it&#039;s better to know who&#039;s going to help you. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a wonderful post to come off of vacation and read! ;) Glad to see the update.</p>
<p>I really agree. It&#8217;s far too easy to assume a lot of audience on simple terms, but if you actually want to profit it&#8217;s better to know who&#8217;s going to help you. ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Nikos Beck</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2008/05/define-your-target-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-3216</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikos Beck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 14:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=101#comment-3216</guid>
		<description>When I try to figure out my target audience I try to profile friends or example customers. I could target &quot;man, aged 26, works on the phone for an insurance company, has some breaks during the day where he can play games online, can&#039;t install software onto the corporate network, makes $25,000 a year, probably has a subscription with WOW and maybe another MMORPG, used to own a console but doesn&#039;t right now but like his buddies PS3, he has a conservative job so he wants a game where there is some release, doesn&#039;t mind violence, doesn&#039;t mnind sexuality, expects course language&quot;. From this profile I&#039;d probably want a game that he can jump into, frag some monsters and jump out. He won&#039;t be playing five-hour quests with his buddies because he won&#039;t be able to coordinate breaks to meet up. Armed with a handful of profiles giving me different details I can focus the sort of game I want to deliver. Ideally, there are things the customer wants that I don&#039;t deliver so that I can keep those features in mind for the future, allow for them in the plan, even if I don&#039;t implement them right away.

Mind you, I&#039;m working on a casual game where my example profiles are women, aged 40 to 60, don&#039;t have the honed reflexes of the Nintendo generation, are constantly interrupted by the kids and home life, play to relax. It&#039;s really helped me pick the features I want to focus on and the features I want to drop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I try to figure out my target audience I try to profile friends or example customers. I could target &#8220;man, aged 26, works on the phone for an insurance company, has some breaks during the day where he can play games online, can&#8217;t install software onto the corporate network, makes $25,000 a year, probably has a subscription with WOW and maybe another MMORPG, used to own a console but doesn&#8217;t right now but like his buddies PS3, he has a conservative job so he wants a game where there is some release, doesn&#8217;t mind violence, doesn&#8217;t mnind sexuality, expects course language&#8221;. From this profile I&#8217;d probably want a game that he can jump into, frag some monsters and jump out. He won&#8217;t be playing five-hour quests with his buddies because he won&#8217;t be able to coordinate breaks to meet up. Armed with a handful of profiles giving me different details I can focus the sort of game I want to deliver. Ideally, there are things the customer wants that I don&#8217;t deliver so that I can keep those features in mind for the future, allow for them in the plan, even if I don&#8217;t implement them right away.</p>
<p>Mind you, I&#8217;m working on a casual game where my example profiles are women, aged 40 to 60, don&#8217;t have the honed reflexes of the Nintendo generation, are constantly interrupted by the kids and home life, play to relax. It&#8217;s really helped me pick the features I want to focus on and the features I want to drop.</p>
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		<title>By: CountZero</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2008/05/define-your-target-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-3128</link>
		<dc:creator>CountZero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 18:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=101#comment-3128</guid>
		<description>Nice breakdown. I get called casual all the time and I play 15-20 hours a week when I&#039;m engaged in a game. No one who is spending 20 hours a week doing anything should be called casual. That slot seems to put me into some kind on &#039;no man&#039;s land&#039; not playing anywhere close to enough to hang with the hardcore gamers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice breakdown. I get called casual all the time and I play 15-20 hours a week when I&#8217;m engaged in a game. No one who is spending 20 hours a week doing anything should be called casual. That slot seems to put me into some kind on &#8216;no man&#8217;s land&#8217; not playing anywhere close to enough to hang with the hardcore gamers.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2008/05/define-your-target-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-3086</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 19:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=101#comment-3086</guid>
		<description>Picky picky :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Picky picky :)</p>
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