<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Indie Games, Prototyping, and Fun Finding</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.eldergame.com/2010/06/indie-games-prototyping-and-fun-finding/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2010/06/indie-games-prototyping-and-fun-finding/</link>
	<description>MMO game development</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:42:26 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Faust</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2010/06/indie-games-prototyping-and-fun-finding/#comment-60107</link>
		<dc:creator>Faust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=614#comment-60107</guid>
		<description>I found the screenshot about the skeleton archer hilarious. This is a really interesting and funny mechanic. Keep up the good work!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found the screenshot about the skeleton archer hilarious. This is a really interesting and funny mechanic. Keep up the good work!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ashkan</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2010/06/indie-games-prototyping-and-fun-finding/#comment-60106</link>
		<dc:creator>ashkan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=614#comment-60106</guid>
		<description>hi
take a look at exitgames.com and it&#039;s great photon product. it&#039;s udp based fast MMO server engine with support for C# scripting for the serverside code. it works on most platforms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi<br />
take a look at exitgames.com and it&#8217;s great photon product. it&#8217;s udp based fast MMO server engine with support for C# scripting for the serverside code. it works on most platforms.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Indie Games, Prototyping, and Fun Finding : iOpixels</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2010/06/indie-games-prototyping-and-fun-finding/#comment-59810</link>
		<dc:creator>Indie Games, Prototyping, and Fun Finding : iOpixels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=614#comment-59810</guid>
		<description>[...] Sounds familiar? Click ahead to read the full article in eldergame.com {link} [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sounds familiar? Click ahead to read the full article in eldergame.com {link} [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric Heimburg</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2010/06/indie-games-prototyping-and-fun-finding/#comment-59398</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Heimburg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 19:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=614#comment-59398</guid>
		<description>Mike: NetDog looks cool, but sadly its Unity mode requires you bundle it with a downloadable Unity game -- it&#039;s not compatible with the Unity web plugin, which is what we&#039;re targeting to start.

Stabs: Sure, having lots of people do the same things as you definitely increases the fun level, and sometimes you can only find a synergistic fun when you have a lot of people playing a game. However... I think that&#039;s a lot more rare than you&#039;d expect. I mean, imagine how much more popular EVE would be if they had taken the time to make the minute-to-minute details of mining and trading actually fun! (Yeah, I went there.)

Todd: that&#039;s a good one for the list.

Darrin: I... I&#039;m sorry to hear that :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike: NetDog looks cool, but sadly its Unity mode requires you bundle it with a downloadable Unity game &#8212; it&#8217;s not compatible with the Unity web plugin, which is what we&#8217;re targeting to start.</p>
<p>Stabs: Sure, having lots of people do the same things as you definitely increases the fun level, and sometimes you can only find a synergistic fun when you have a lot of people playing a game. However&#8230; I think that&#8217;s a lot more rare than you&#8217;d expect. I mean, imagine how much more popular EVE would be if they had taken the time to make the minute-to-minute details of mining and trading actually fun! (Yeah, I went there.)</p>
<p>Todd: that&#8217;s a good one for the list.</p>
<p>Darrin: I&#8230; I&#8217;m sorry to hear that :)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Wayne Riddle</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2010/06/indie-games-prototyping-and-fun-finding/#comment-59362</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne Riddle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 12:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=614#comment-59362</guid>
		<description>Nice post, glad to see the development is coming along. Good to see the insight from you and others in building an indie game.

Fun is the main thing. Fancy graphics can catch your eye but to keep your attention it has to be fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post, glad to see the development is coming along. Good to see the insight from you and others in building an indie game.</p>
<p>Fun is the main thing. Fancy graphics can catch your eye but to keep your attention it has to be fun.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Darrin West</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2010/06/indie-games-prototyping-and-fun-finding/#comment-58981</link>
		<dc:creator>Darrin West</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 03:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=614#comment-58981</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m thinking there is a lot more similarities than people might think between an Indie MMO development and a well-financed studio that will wind up shipping on time, on budget. I&#039;m also thinking about the adage that art is about economy: doing a lot with only a little (time, supplies, movement...). Austerity. I&#039;m always amazed by how well a game designer can design their way around a technical limitation. We developers need to put our ego on hold and admit that we can&#039;t build something better. Not because we suck at building stuff, but that we don&#039;t have the time or resources. Trust that the designers can design around that.

Getting the game fun is always more important than a perfect infrastructure. You can&#039;t make money if no one plays your game. But you can make *some* money if your server doesn&#039;t support twice as many players, or if it has to be rebooted twice a day.

Publishers don&#039;t care how cool your server tech is. Publishers give you money if they think the game will succeed. That is based on how fun the game is, and whether there is something they can see (or better yet, can play).

Content developers don&#039;t care how cool your server tech is either. They care how easy it is to get content into the game at shippable quality. And there are a lot more content developers on a reasonable sized game team than anyone else.

The flip side is: build your server to be loosely coupled so you can replace parts that measurably don&#039;t perform (there will be lots of &quot;important&quot; parts that just don&#039;t show up on the critical path, and you probably don&#039;t know the difference to begin with, so don&#039;t optimize everything). Make your server scale-*able*, but not necessarily large-scale to begin with. Then, even if you don&#039; t have time to replace software, if you wind up hugely successful, you have the option of throwing hardware at the problem.

Have you ever thought about how the Portal team found the fun? Before or after the cool tech was finished?

BTW, Eric, I&#039;m now working on a game that makes use of Smartfox. (I have just about eaten all the humble-pie in the fridge. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m thinking there is a lot more similarities than people might think between an Indie MMO development and a well-financed studio that will wind up shipping on time, on budget. I&#8217;m also thinking about the adage that art is about economy: doing a lot with only a little (time, supplies, movement&#8230;). Austerity. I&#8217;m always amazed by how well a game designer can design their way around a technical limitation. We developers need to put our ego on hold and admit that we can&#8217;t build something better. Not because we suck at building stuff, but that we don&#8217;t have the time or resources. Trust that the designers can design around that.</p>
<p>Getting the game fun is always more important than a perfect infrastructure. You can&#8217;t make money if no one plays your game. But you can make *some* money if your server doesn&#8217;t support twice as many players, or if it has to be rebooted twice a day.</p>
<p>Publishers don&#8217;t care how cool your server tech is. Publishers give you money if they think the game will succeed. That is based on how fun the game is, and whether there is something they can see (or better yet, can play).</p>
<p>Content developers don&#8217;t care how cool your server tech is either. They care how easy it is to get content into the game at shippable quality. And there are a lot more content developers on a reasonable sized game team than anyone else.</p>
<p>The flip side is: build your server to be loosely coupled so you can replace parts that measurably don&#8217;t perform (there will be lots of &#8220;important&#8221; parts that just don&#8217;t show up on the critical path, and you probably don&#8217;t know the difference to begin with, so don&#8217;t optimize everything). Make your server scale-*able*, but not necessarily large-scale to begin with. Then, even if you don&#8217; t have time to replace software, if you wind up hugely successful, you have the option of throwing hardware at the problem.</p>
<p>Have you ever thought about how the Portal team found the fun? Before or after the cool tech was finished?</p>
<p>BTW, Eric, I&#8217;m now working on a game that makes use of Smartfox. (I have just about eaten all the humble-pie in the fridge. :)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Todd Berkebile</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2010/06/indie-games-prototyping-and-fun-finding/#comment-58942</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Berkebile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 23:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=614#comment-58942</guid>
		<description>&quot;I don’t have a list or corners not to cut...&quot;

How about &quot;version everything&quot; as a corner not to cut? Then you can more easily fix your inevitable mistakes by bumping the version number. It&#039;s better to have a few useless versions that never change scattered about than to get stuck with no way to fix or tweak some important element later on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I don’t have a list or corners not to cut&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>How about &#8220;version everything&#8221; as a corner not to cut? Then you can more easily fix your inevitable mistakes by bumping the version number. It&#8217;s better to have a few useless versions that never change scattered about than to get stuck with no way to fix or tweak some important element later on.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Todd Berkebile</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2010/06/indie-games-prototyping-and-fun-finding/#comment-58939</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Berkebile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 23:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=614#comment-58939</guid>
		<description>&quot;It means being agile as hell, and it means that 90% of the time you skip worrying about the technological details until you’re sure you need them… but at the same time, you don’t have the luxury of rewriting it from scratch later, so in a few places, you really do need to plan your tech ahead of time to make sure your game can float.&quot;

This is the core Catch-22. Only by having the experience of having done this many times can you know which things are critically important and which things are excessive. I completely agree with Eric&#039;s statements here. In fact I&#039;ll go even further, if in doubt assume you don&#039;t need it. Don&#039;t code any tech until the game forces you to make the new technology.

But having said all that, personally I just love coding tech more than designing games. ;) I&#039;m not delusional enough to think that&#039;s the path to success, but it sure is fun.

And Jason, my other advice would be don&#039;t waste your time trying to make MMO middleware. The big players in the market like Hero and Big World are slowly failing after millions of dollars spent. Other companies are working their way towards bankruptcy trying to provide offerings for this market. The middleware that is surviving is the middleware that is more generic and supports a wide range of games. The MMO-specific middleware market is all dried up. Besides, the most successful middleware companies all started by making a game and then later realized others might be able to use their tech.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It means being agile as hell, and it means that 90% of the time you skip worrying about the technological details until you’re sure you need them… but at the same time, you don’t have the luxury of rewriting it from scratch later, so in a few places, you really do need to plan your tech ahead of time to make sure your game can float.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is the core Catch-22. Only by having the experience of having done this many times can you know which things are critically important and which things are excessive. I completely agree with Eric&#8217;s statements here. In fact I&#8217;ll go even further, if in doubt assume you don&#8217;t need it. Don&#8217;t code any tech until the game forces you to make the new technology.</p>
<p>But having said all that, personally I just love coding tech more than designing games. ;) I&#8217;m not delusional enough to think that&#8217;s the path to success, but it sure is fun.</p>
<p>And Jason, my other advice would be don&#8217;t waste your time trying to make MMO middleware. The big players in the market like Hero and Big World are slowly failing after millions of dollars spent. Other companies are working their way towards bankruptcy trying to provide offerings for this market. The middleware that is surviving is the middleware that is more generic and supports a wide range of games. The MMO-specific middleware market is all dried up. Besides, the most successful middleware companies all started by making a game and then later realized others might be able to use their tech.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cat</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2010/06/indie-games-prototyping-and-fun-finding/#comment-58937</link>
		<dc:creator>Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 23:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=614#comment-58937</guid>
		<description>I laughed until I had tears in my eyes about the wasp with a crippling fear of success.  I do think you have found something to explore.  I am now imagining fighting said wasp, allowing it to believe it might win and thus causing it to sabotage its own efforts.

It&#039;s the perfect essence of the two of you and a great way to re-imagine MMO combat.  I like your niche so far.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I laughed until I had tears in my eyes about the wasp with a crippling fear of success.  I do think you have found something to explore.  I am now imagining fighting said wasp, allowing it to believe it might win and thus causing it to sabotage its own efforts.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the perfect essence of the two of you and a great way to re-imagine MMO combat.  I like your niche so far.  :)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Invisible Processes &#171; Something Shiny!</title>
		<link>http://www.eldergame.com/2010/06/indie-games-prototyping-and-fun-finding/#comment-58920</link>
		<dc:creator>Invisible Processes &#171; Something Shiny!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 20:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eldergame.com/?p=614#comment-58920</guid>
		<description>[...] June 14, 2010 by fangirlzab    Repeat after me: nobody cares how cool my server tech is. Say it! If you don’t believe that mantra, then there’s no sense trying to make an indie MMO. You will get stuck in technology limbo like everybody else does. &#8211; Eric Heimburg, Elder Game Blog [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] June 14, 2010 by fangirlzab    Repeat after me: nobody cares how cool my server tech is. Say it! If you don’t believe that mantra, then there’s no sense trying to make an indie MMO. You will get stuck in technology limbo like everybody else does. &#8211; Eric Heimburg, Elder Game Blog [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

